God versus Atheism Part 2

OK I have been very diplomatic before with regard to the debates over atheism, but now I just feel annoyed about the attacking nature of atheists on Twitter specifically. People will claim that atheism is not a belief, that it is a disbelief yet it has so many over zealous champions the faith-hood nature it has taken on is difficult to deny. Most people get annoyed by Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on their door and who can forget that infamous Christian preacher on Oxford Street given an ASBO some years ago? ('Don't be a sinner, be a winner' Ring any bells?) Yet they do not see attacking believers in God as intolerant and irritating and of an extremist nature. They arrogantly claim it as 'truth telling'. As an advocate of free speech in a world where sometimes that's all we have, I believe people should be allowed to say what they please, but I just don't think that people should dress up their preaching as some sort of self-righteous good. If you are a tool, please recognise!

This year, so many things have happened, the world has woken up and people are dying every day to fight corrupt governments. Generalising generally never helps but from my young therefore admittedly limited perspective, the causes of most cruelty, past and present, are government self-interest, greed, tyranny, corruption, nationalism and intolerance. Note, the same intolerance some atheists are exhibiting. Not belief or disbelief in God.

One claim was that organised religion causes genocide, I asked which genocides, the tribalistic Rwandan? The communist Khmer Rouge? The atheist Nazi extermination of Jews? As I have said before the biggest genocide which killed more people than all of the genocides in the 20th Century is the selective abortion of foetuses with chromosomes of the XX variety. These have nothing to do with religion/God.

Yes there are plenty of so-called religious nut jobs but the common denominator of said nut jobs is not religion, they twist ideologies to suit their own purposes. Thinking that your beliefs or sweeping generalisations alone have the answer to the world's problems? Sounds familiar, like hmmm... religious extremists?! If nuns, priests, monks and all devoted religious people stopped believing in organised religion, probably because they were convinced by some OTT atheist preaching of course, would the world become better, would there be no cruelty and tyranny? No don't think so.

Admittedly, I have found Biblical quotations in a public sphere cringey but this new no God preaching and writing anti-religion quotes from public figures is equally vomit inducing. FYI snooty arrogance will rarely convince someone of whatever your argument may be. Both sides can be arrogant and human beings have been this way since the dawn of time. We have always thought we have known it all no matter how limited our education. If you told a foetus there was a world outside the womb, they would probably not believe you. Judging from the past, just because we have not discovered something, like the discovery of the shape of the earth, other planets, entities smaller than microscopic, does this mean that they do not exist?

Apparently being a liberal lefty is not compatible with believing in God, in the world where we must define our being in 160 characters or less, yet why should I have to fit into the box that people want me to. I am educated, I live in secular Britain, a society where most people are atheist or agnostic, I hardly have any religious friends and yet I believe in God and justice in the afterlife. Unless that is affecting your life please leave your ridiculous preaching/ ignorant generalisations to yourself. There are peaceful protesters and 84-year-old women being pepper sprayed in the face, whistle blowers being punished and ostracised more than war criminals and apartheid in the Middle East being championed because powerful corporations and lobby groups control the government in the land of the free. Surely these issues should take priority over your 'liberal' godless crusading?

See also http://anbarrockny.blogspot.com/

God versus Atheism

*Inspired by http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=402381*


This topic sparks such furious debate and contrary to what some may think, as a believer in God I do like to hear different points of view! Furthermore, I do not hear the 'other side's' point of view in a jaded way simply in order to reinforce my own views like both sides do. I have watched a documentary by perhaps the most famous champion of atheism, Richard Dawkins and found it very interesting. He is certainly articulate and makes good points, just to drive the point home, that religion is shit, much of the documentary was centred on Palestine/Israel. There are many feuds all over the world in which it can be said that religion is the root cause. To use the above example however would be to trivialise this issue at best, and pandering to ignorance at the worst. I digress...

What I do not appreciate in this never-ending argument is the bitterness of some atheists and the way in which they belittle believer's arguments instead of counteracting it.

"Though my email address is BibleL7, I was not always a believer. Most of my life I was in fact Atheist. I had no reason to doubt that believers were foolish and thus less intelligent. However at the age of 37 I found out different."

One response was to say that they did not believe that the above commenter was an atheist based on the fact that he had capitalised 'atheist'. You cannot win an argument by telling people what they used to or currently do believe, in fact that sort of talk sounds fairly Taliban-esque. This type of militancy devalues their argument, and they become just as bad as religious extremists who see other points of view as nothing other than ridiculous. In any healthy debate, emotions should be checked at the door. Furthermore, it is probably one of the only debates in which the sides are extremely unlikely to change their mind, and both would also NOT agree to disagree. Others included,

"Thanks... for that sermon. However, your "They teach evolution as fact instead of a theory" comment only supports the findings, which is that low intelligence people are more likely to believe in a god / fairy / dragon etc."


The thing is that unintelligent people, who are often religious, will not look at the facts. They have little utility to understand the scientific method and will dismiss study after study that shows the relation between low intelligence and religion. 


How a person of intelligence can generalise huge swathes of people in this manner, is again, very much in the same vein as the Taliban/Hitler/Militant Communist. The person of faith also contributed,


"It answered questions that no evolutionist or big bang theory believers ever could. And that was just the first chapter."


To which someone responded,

"Anyone can answer questions by 'making up' answers. If the bible had claimed that the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the 'Great Green Arkleseizure' would you also live in perpetual fear "The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief"?"

Although the analogy is crap and patronising, this point is fair enough as I always say, check your sources, and if you do not want to believe in a thousand+ year old book made and probably altered over the years, please do not think that many studies and stories you read today are not made and perpetuated by hidden and sometimes not so hidden agendas. With regard to the study in the article itself, I would seriously question their definition of intellectuals. This itself panders to elitism which is all about titles and formal education, which many impoverished yet highly intelligent people have not had the opportunity to pursue. According to Mensa, intelligence is mental agility, or quickness of mental comprehension, note that it is not attributed to self-important titles. The debate will rage on I am sure but conveniently so, my thoughts are summed up by some other comments,

"Thanks... for the drive-by sneers... Such disdain is a typical reaction of some "intellectuals" to arguments they disagree with but cannot refute."


"Even if it were true that intelligence is correlated with atheism, it only provides more proof that intelligence is not the same as wisdom."


"Sad isn't it? When we don't understand something much bigger than us we call those who believe in it un-intelligent."


The existence of God can only be put to rest once we die and get to see if there is indeed an afterlife, a punishment, judgement etc. so actually none of us, not intellectuals nor dummies nor religious or atheist zealots, know whether there is a God for a fact. Let's put our faith in that.

See also http://anbarrockny.blogspot.com/